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Genesis Interpretations: Part 4:

Dinosaurs did not live with people???

Courtesy of CreationOpia, the Answers in Genesis website article “Problems with Other Interpretations: Appendix B” at “http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/oect/problems-other-interpretationsdebunks several creation interpretations such as:

In debunking the above theories, the authors applied several key lenses as modes of inquiry to test the validity of these theories and any proposed theories.

How does the Genesis Creation Account Universe Tools Paradigm & Literal Creator Days hold up to each of these modes of inquiry?

The last post already started to examine each aspect point by point. This time the fourth point on “whether the Dinosaurs lived with people” will be analyzed.

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4. Dinosaurs did not live with people? The Bible Genesis Creation account in Genesis 1 & 2 pertains to our Universe with plants, animals, and people created by God.

Dinosaurs Before People:

Before God created man and woman, God created the varieties of air, sea, and land animals. Air and sea creatures that breathed were created, followed by land animals. Dinosaurs are animals, so God created them too.

Genesis 1:20 (ESV): 20 And God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.”

Genesis 1:24-25 (ESV): 24 And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds—livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. 25 And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good

Genesis 1:26 (ESV): 26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

The first creation account (Genesis 1 (ESV)) reveals that after air & sea animals were created, they were to reproduce to populate the land and seas. These creatures collectively are given the capability to grow in quantity from their initial small population to a much larger population size on Earth.

Genesis 1:22 (ESV): 22 And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.”

Strangely, the Bible omits the proclamation for land animals to be fruitful and multiply. This technically leaves open the possibility of the extinction of land animals before the creation of Adam & Eve.

Genesis 1:24-25 (ESV): 24 And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds—livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. 25 And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

Dinosaurs With First People:

Examining the second creation account (Genesis 2 (ESV)) more plainly shows that every kind of sea, air, and land animals that God created were brought to Adam to name, and were alive too when the naming took place. As dinosaurs are a kind of animal, dinosaurs were alive at the time of Adam & Eve.

Genesis 2:19 (ESV): 19 Now out of the ground the Lord God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.

In summary, the Bible reveals animals were created before Adam & Eve. Adam and Eve are the first of humankind, and the ancestors of all people. As dinosaurs are animals, the dinosaurs existed first before people.

Those who interpret scientific data argue the age of the dinosaurs in a broad range from thousands of years to millions of years ago, due to various technicalities around carbon dating uncertainties, co-location of species believed to be different ages found at the same rock layer, what they were taught by their instructors, and differences in their underlying beliefs/paradigms/perspectives. While either of these timelines fits and acknowledges God as the Creator in the Universe Tools Paradigm with Literal Creator Days, the caveat is it is hoped that over time scientific dating methods will become more accurate & precise.

As God had Adam name all the animals, then clearly the animals still existed at the time of Adam, and intuitively by inference likewise at the time of Eve.

Dinosaurs With Later People:

As Adam & Eve lived very long lives, the question is how long have dinosaurs co-existed with people?

The Bible in the Book of Job identifies a large creature that has been interpreted as what we today call dinosaurs, as evidence of dinosaurs co-existence with people.

Job 40:15-19 (ESV): 15 “Behold, Behemoth, which I made as I made you; he eats grass like an ox. 16 Behold, his strength in his loins, and his power in the muscles of his belly. 17 He makes his tail stiff like a cedar;the sinews of his thighs are knit together. 18 His bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs like bars of iron. 19 “He is the first of the works of God; let him who made him bring near his sword!

When God questioned Job, Job properly acknowledged God as creator, knowing more than us.

Job 40:1-5 (ESV): 1 And the Lord said to Job: 2 “Shall a faultfinder contend with the Almighty? He who argues with God, let him answer it.” 3 Then Job answered the Lord and said: 4 “Behold, I am of small account; what shall I answer you? I lay my hand on my mouth. 5 I have spoken once, and I will not answer; twice, but I will proceed no further.”

God questioned Job, using illustrations from creation, to show the lack of the depth of knowledge of humankind about Our World and about God. Job repented from his views, which were initially informed only by what people had told him. (Aside: The “red” lettering is added for Job quoting God’s response for clarity.)

Job 42:1-6 (ESV): 1 Then Job answered the Lord and said: 2 “I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.3 ‘Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge?’ Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know. 4 ‘Hear, and I will speak; I will question you, and you make it known to me.’ 5 I had heard of you by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees you; 6 therefore I despise myself, and repent in dust and ashes.”

When it comes to creation & understanding God, let all people remember that ourselves and many people in the world will likely share these same sentiments of Job once the truth is understood more fully. It is our responsibility to look carefully at all God’s revealed words in the Bible, with the aim to fully live our lives as a reborn creation knowing Jesus Christ the Son of God, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, having healthy desires to know God, love the truth, and care about all people.

As creation origins has been a stumbling block for many to come to trust fully God’s scriptures in the Bible, it is an important area to learn more deeply. The Universe Tools Paradigm Literal Creator Days paradigm distinguishes time in Our World from the time in the Creators World. This vantage point supports scientific inquiry to attempt to understand the time elapsed in Our World for the various creation events ranging from the cosmic to the biological. This perspective is inclusive of investigating the truth about proposed time periods, whether thousands, millions, or billions of years in our world existing before people were created. When scientific evidence together with Biblical evidence are consistent with a creation paradigm, then more confidence can be placed in our understanding of the truth.

Later Scientific & Empirical & Cultural Evidences:

What type of scientific & empirical evidence exists that dinosaurs and people lived at the same time?

Before presenting scientific & empirical evidence, be advised there are interpretative lenses applied by scientists, religious people, and atheists that potentially taint our correctly understanding evidences. Even so, let us proceed, knowing many people have been shown almost exclusively evidences about dinosaurs existing prior to people inhabiting the Earth, without being shown evidences dinosaurs also coexisting with people.

Thomas Kindell’s presentation on Dinosaurs named “The Great Dinosaur Deception-Exposed!” at http://nwcreation.net/presentations/Thomas_Kindell/Dinos-Medium_files/frame.htm showcases several scientific & empirical & cultural evidences that Dinosaurs existed at the same time as people, with evidence like:

  • Fossil Record: Shows several human skeleton at Same Geologic Layer as Dinosaurs (Malchite Man by Don R Patton, Ph. D)
  • Carvings & Sculptures: People created carvings & sculptures of Dinosaurs in Latin America. In Peru, over several ICO Stones discovered since 1961, courtesy work by Dr. Javier Cabrera, with the Inka’s time period around 500 A.D. to 1000 A.D.
  • Dinosaur Blood & Tissues: Dinosaur Fossil found with Blood & Cells still inside (Earth, 1997, pages 55-57 and Scientists recover T. rex soft tissue: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7285683). Based upon what is known on how biological matter decays, this infers at least some dinosaurs are younger than thought.
  • Dragon “myths”/”stories” (think of like Dinosaurs): Are found worldwide throughout many cultures (The Dragons of Eden, Carl Sagan)

To summarize the above, the scientific & empirical & cultural evidences suggests that dinosaur-like creatures lived longer with people than typically aware.

Dinosaur’s Decline:

From the standpoint of the Universe Tools Paradigm and the Literal Creator Days, the goal to more accurately & precisely codify the time of the decline & decay of the dinosaurs is left as a scientific & intellectual & empirical exercise. It is a similar exercise to endeavor to understand the dinosaur’s population sizes and reasons for decline, whether from predators like people targeting their eggs, youth, and adults, and/or other environment factors, including the worldwide flood at Noah’s time. It is a personal wonder whether it’d be possible to extract the genetic material (DNA) from the Dinosaur fossil, and see what can be learned from that, compared to other dinosaurs if/when more materials found later, and to other kinds of animals.

It was previously established that strangely in the creation account in Genesis that the land animals were not instructed to be fruitful and multiply, leaving open the option to the extinction of certain kinds & species of land animals. What else can we learn from the second creation account? After God created the sea, air, and land animals, God created man & women.

Genesis 1:27-28 (ESV): 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

God’s granting dominion of people over sea, air, and land creatures was consistent with their responsibility in a non-fallen (before sin) world to carefully care & tend the world. After the fall, this also means people are in a position of dominance, which could lead to the extinction / extermination of several types / kinds / species of animals. Much research is conducted today showing the migratory patterns of animals like sea & air creatures aimed to find ways to preserve them. As certain sea creatures are associated with food & the livelihood of many people/ industries, this research and the resulting policies / practices are important for all people involved.

Conclusion:

In conclusion, the dinosaurs (1) existed before people, (2) existed at the time of Adam & Eve, (3) existed to some degree during Job’s time, and (4) empirical/scientific/culture evidence suggests co-existed later with people in the historical record.

Did Dinosaurs live with people? Yes, definitely! For how long, deference is given to reasonable assessment of scientific & empirical & cultural evidences.

The Bible Genesis Creation Account Universe Tools Paradigm & Literal Creator Days Presentation is available here, as a reference.

You can view & download the presentation at the SlideShare site at http://www.slideshare.net/creationary/bible-genesis-creation-account

Stay tuned for future analysis of the other lenses as modes of inquiry to test the validity of The Bible Genesis Creation Account Universe Tools Paradigm & Literal Creator Days.

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Courtesy of CreationOpia, Genesis Interpretations: Part 3:

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Genesis Interpretations: Part 3:

Satan fell before end of creation week???

The Answers in Genesis website article “Problems with Other Interpretations: Appendix B” at “http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/oect/problems-other-interpretations” debunks several creation interpretations such as:

In debunking the above theories, the authors applied several key lenses as modes of inquiry to test the validity of these theories and any proposed theories.

How does the Genesis Creation Account Universe Tools Paradigm & Literal Creator Days hold up to each of these modes of inquiry?

The last post already started to examine each aspect point by point. This time the third point on “whether the Satan fell before the end of the creation week” will be analyzed.

3. Satan fell before end of creation week?

The Bible Genesis Creation account in Genesis 1 & 2 pertains to our Universe, with its’ Sun, Moon, and Stars, and our Earth with its’ people, animals, and plants.

For man to be alone is the only thing God specifically identified that was not good in the creation account, which God planned to solve & did solve by creating woman.

Genesis 2:18 (ESV): 18 Then the Lord God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.”

The Bible reveals the creation of our Universe was “very good” at the end of the sixth day, after also sharing several times the creation was good days earlier. It is reasonable to conclude there was nothing was created “bad” or “fallen” during this six day time period.

Genesis 1:31 (ESV): 31 And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

This leads to the conclusion that “Satan the Devil did not fall during creation week”. This leaves two possibilities: (1) Satan fell prior to to creation week, or (2) Satan fell after creation week.

The scriptures reveal Satan the Devil was sinning since the beginning, so Satan was already around in a fallen state to witness the creation of our Universe, which God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit made by applying wisdom at the beginning.

1 John 3:8 (ESV): 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

Genesis 1:1 (ESV): 1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

Proverbs 3:19-20 (ESV): 19 The Lord by wisdom founded the earth;by understanding he established the heavens;20 by his knowledge the deeps broke open, and the clouds drop down the dew.

In conclusion, Satan the Devil fell prior to Our Universe’s creation week starting, and did not fall during or after creation week.

As Satan is a fallen angel, it is reasonable to conclude that both angels loyal Satan the Devil and those instead loyal to God, were there at Our World’s creation.

This is consistent with the view that angels and the Heavens that are outside our world were also created before our Universe’s creation week.

While several words in our language, words have multiple meanings depending on the context. The Genesis account defines heaven both as our Earth sky, and heavens as the broader outer-space around the Earth.

Genesis 1:1 (ESV): 1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

Genesis 1:6 (ESV): 6 And God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. 8 And God called the expanse Heaven.And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.

Genesis 1:14-17 (ESV): 14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so. 16 And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. 17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 

There are several Bible references to the heaven outside our Universe.

Jesus speaks about this heaven above with the angels and God.

Genesis 1:10 (ESV): 10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.

Jacob, the grandson of Abraham, and son of Isaac, saw a vision of angels ascending & descending to/from heaven when asleep (Genesis 28:10-17 (ESV) )

Genesis 28:12 (ESV): 12 And he dreamed, and behold, there was a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven. And behold, the angels of God were ascending and descending on it!

In the context of Jacob’s dream, heaven is on one level of reading our Earth’s sky. On a second level, Jacob’s dream portrays a gate between Our Universe and the Heaven God created outside it. Jacob describes this as a gate to heaven.

Genesis 28:17 (ESV): 17 And he was afraid and said, “How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.”

Prior to technologies which enable flight in the sky around the Earth, it is understandable prior scholars to too quickly to jump to the conclusion that this is where the Heaven with the Angels exist. Likewise, prior to telescope technology that peers deep into space, an interpretation that Heaven above might have referred to our locations in the broader Universe.

With the Universe Tools Paradigm, it is understood that Our Universe and Heaven itself which is outside Our Universe, are created using data & rules supported by a compute infrastructure to operate these worlds. Likewise, it is reasonable to conclude the New Heaven and New Earth will be powered similarly.

Isaiah 65:17 (ESV): 17 “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.

Seeing people playing in alternate worlds on electronics like PC’s, game systems, smart phones, and tablets devices, makes it much easier today than even before in the history of humankind, to understand the Universe Tools Paradigm.

Did Satan the Devil fall during or after creation week? Definitely Not! Satan was there in the beginning, already a fallen angel at the start of creation week.

The Bible Genesis Creation Account Universe Tools Paradigm & Literal Creator Days Presentation is available here, as a reference.

You can view & download the presentation at the SlideShare site at http://www.slideshare.net/creationary/bible-genesis-creation-account

Stay tuned for future analysis of the other lenses as modes of inquiry to test the validity of The Bible Genesis Creation Account Universe Tools Paradigm & Literal Creator Days.

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Through intense trials Satan coordinated as permitted by God, Job clung to God’s ways, correctly perceiving by remaining faithful and virtuous he’d emerge victorious & valuable, reflecting good plans God has for all who follow him through life and its’ adversities.

Job 23:10

10 But he knows the way that I take;
when he has tried me, I shall come out as gold.

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